> I find it interesting to think of a meaningless universe that is yet capable of producing beings who have some concept of meaning. It seems to me unlikely that, if the universe really were meaningless, we'd have any idea of it (because the possibility of something having meaning would never occur to us.) Purpose, order, cause, and effect are so wrapped up in everything we do.

Well, even if the universe has no inherent meaning, it is still beneficial to our species to impose order on the world. That helps us to understand the world, and even if it is a superficial understanding, that false understanding allows us to survive and reproduce. so, the fact that humans impose purpose on the universe does not imply that the universe has purpose; it could just be natural selection at work.

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> Aren't we wasting our efforts if, ultimately, this idea of 'meaning' we have is just an illusion?

Yup!

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> This thought is, of course, abhorrent to me. I hate the idea that it doesn't make a speck of difference to anything whether I die tomorrow or live to be 80.

Yeah, but it makes a difference to *you*.

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> I suppose the other possibility (given a meaningless universe) is that, by conceiving the idea of meaning, we have in a sense created meaning.

I've heard people attibuting these sorts of ideas to Kant...is that misinterpretation? (I'm not very learned in philosophy)

Missy"all I know about existentialism I learned from the dragon in 'Grendel'"Clar