I've posted a previous message with every scrap of info on it as to my AC, WC, Resists, Hit points, spell points, and stats plus all eguipment I'm wearing and all items in my cache. Thanks to Gharlane for trying but have already done all she advised and more. Here's a run down on all of it. __________________I already have played Murkon's Refuge multiple times with double spell casting assassins up to as high as levels 140 to 200 with several kills on Murkon himself. I have a complete, very complete map of the entire page of level 1 in MV and have touched on every single square multiple times and used check points to consolidate potions, lakes and all else between kills revisting where necessary and avoiding trap squares that decrease my AC. I have used at least 20 different minion combos including Leviathon w/assorted monter supporters. Frankly, have tried every ploy and trick I can think of all to no avail. I really need some specific advice about how to take out these 4 for the item needed to reach the Grim and the place only he can give me access to. until I can do that, I have NO chance of completing the game or taking on the final 2 kills. LOL Nora